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American DEA Agent`s views on Mexican Cartels

Interviewed By Rico


Q. My first question is with the rise of the 5 Guatemalan Mafia families what is the effect on the Mexican Drug trade? Do these organizations cut into their profits in any ways? A. There is no comparison between what is taking place in Guatemala and Mexico. Mexican cartels are criminal organizations which aim to turn a profit. The groups in Guatemala are primarily rebels led by military or former military officials with a political agenda. These groups have turned to narcotics as a means of financing their so-called revolutionary organizations. What we find most often are bands of rebels protecting shipments belonging to larger long established groups in Columbia and or Brazil. The best example of this type of arrangement exists between the Red Command and the FARC. To complete the answer to this question, there is no competition between the two groups as there has been no effect on the Mexican cartels profit margin. Q. My next question is with the demise of Amado Carrillo in '97 and the arrest of Benjamin Arellano in '02, is it possible that the Mexican drug trade will see a splintering of the trade similar to what happened after the collapse of the Meddillin and Cali cartels in the 90's? A. Great inroads have been made over the past decade as far as developing a greater understanding of what we are dealing with in Columbia and Mexico. The Medellin Cartel collapsed because our government made it a priority to remove Pablo Escobar from power. Had he concentrated on the business at hand and limited his interest to narcotics, he would probably still be alive today. His fate and that of Meddillinization he constructed was sealed when he turned to political terrorism. At this point he and the organization he led became a threat to the security of the United States and therefore had to be eliminated. As for the Cali cartel, its business as usual. They are still the dominant force in Columbia and are a growing threat as their sophistication increases. You mention splinter groups, I get the impression that you are implying that these are new, upstart groups with no connection to the old guard. This is not the case. As intelligence is gathered on these seemingly independent organizations, we find that there is often a financial connection. In essence you have parent organizations sponsoring smaller distribution networks which attract the attention of law enforcement, politicians and the general public. We have made great impressions war on drugs but a lack of consistent focus and funding gives the trafficking networks a tremendous advantage. Q. Is it safe to say that presently Vicente Carrillo Fuentes is the most wanted man in the Mexican drug trade? If so how (baring any sensitive information of course) is this investigation going? Do you expect an arrest any time soon? Also the Carrillo Fuentes compound is known to authorities, has it been under surveillance and if not why not? A. Every agency has its own list of priority targets, but Carillo is certainly a figure we would like to see brought to justice. Sorry I cannot divulge any information pertaining to the question regarding expected arrests or surveillance targets. Q. Anyone who studies the international narcotics trade and crunches the numbers eventually realizes that they are less than definitive. I've seen that the international trade profits placed between $200 billion and $1 trillion annually for example. This is a wide figure which I personally estimate to be around $400 billion. What can you tell our readers about these figures and which seem most realistic to you? A. The estimates are of no investigative value and are composed by economists, accountants and other specialists primarily for media purposes. As for my personal opinion, there is no accurate way to estimate how much these groups make. Q. Amado Carrillo Fuentes was estimated to be worth around $25 billion at the time of his death. Was this number accurate? Also has his brother Vicente been able to achieve this level of wealth? A. To amass a personal fortune of $25 billion over a very short period of time would have been a tremendous accomplishment but I beg to differ on that figure. The Juarez cartel were transportation specialists, meaning very little of the cocaine the group moved into the states actually belonged to them so assuming he was able to amass a fortune of $25 billion, then there is some out there somewhere who made 10 times that amount . As for his brother Vincent, his inability to unify the Juarez cartel is severely cutting into the groups effectiveness. Guillen is getting at least half of the business that the cartel is earning and it is very likely that they are both fronting for someone else. So the answer here is no. Q. Of the traffickers in Mexico today how many would you say are billionaire? Also has the declining demand for cocaine damaged their profits significantly? Also is there a fee that traffickers are paying for these laundry services? Can you explain how the drug money out of Mexico is laundered? Also is there a fee that traffickers are paying for these laundry services? A. Billionaire Mexican traffickers, I can't honestly say there is a single one who has amassed a personal net worth anywhere near that figure. If you ask me how many cartels do a billion dollar business that would generate a totally different response altogether which I would then reply, each of the majors do a billion dollar business. To amass a billion dollar fortune, a trafficker needs his money diversified world wide and the attention paid to every dollar going into and coming out of the Mexican banking system is so closely scrutinized that international investment opportunities are few and far between for these guys. Unlike some of the other billionaire criminal figures around the world, drugs are pretty much the life blood of Mexican cartels right now. Unless they diversify into other profitable sidelines, it will be along time before anyone breaks the billion dollar net worth barrier in Mexico. There have been attempts to invest in real-estate in the U.S. and abroad but as I stated previously, we scrutinizes cash sums transferred out of Mexico so intensely that we have been very successful in blocking these attempts thus far. Laundering fees are generally paid as a percentage of the money handled by the broker. Q. What is the current role of Juan Jose Esparagossa Moreno in the Mexican Drug trade? A. He is the puppet master, a guiding hand which is sure to play a major role in the direction of the Mexican cartels. If anyone is capable of uniting the cartels he is the one. Q. Benjamin Arellano as well as the Ochoa brothers of Columbia have both stated in interviews that they do not profit nearly as much as the United States government says that they do. Are these statements to be believed? A. This is one of the few times I would agree with a statement issued by someone of their ilk. Many times estimates are drawn from the street cost which is much higher than the price people at their level pay and then provide pass on to their customers. Q. Is the trend internationally in narcotics organizations to larger "corporate" type cartels or smaller operations? A. The cartel structure has remained constant but we have been more successful in identifying a greater number of lower level operatives and therefore exposing to a greater extent the depth of the problem we are dealing. Q. What exactly defines a criminal drug trafficking outfit as a cartel? The traditional definition is that a cartel is an organization which is a combination of several independent groups which consolidate to raise profits and limit risks through the establishment of a monopoly. The Cali cartel fit this model but the Mexican organizations for the most part do not. Is the term cartel simply a label? A It is very simple, labels are placed on these organizations such as cartel, gang, mafia, cosa nostra, etc., for the purpose of public identification. Upon closer inspection, there are few differences between any of the above in terms of makeup outside of economic success, experience and in some instances political influence. Q. Why is it that heroin trafficking organizations tend to be much smaller in size and scope than cocaine trafficking organizations? A. The cocaine market provides greater profits therefore a greater number of criminals get involved. The cost of importing heroin is also much greater limiting the profit margin in addition to a much greater risk of detection resulting in costly seizures. Q. In your opinion what drives a man like Vicente Carrillo or Osiel Cardenas to continue in this business when they have amassed such enormous fortunes? Why don't they retire? A. Ego and greed, in addition to the fact that these men are professional criminals plain and simple and professional criminals don't often retire. Q. Have any psychological profiles on these individuals ever been conducted? A. Individual files contain a variety of information. "This is all I can provide in regards to this question." Q. The Mexican organizations have been linked to Russian Organized crime, Colombian Organized crime, etc., is their any connection to traditional American Organized crime i.e. the Cosa Nostra? A. Traditional organized crime has long operated in Mexico but those links are on the governmental level. Very rarely do you find Cosa Nostra figures in the company of cartel figures. Q. Do any Cosa Nostra members deal directly with the Mexican Cartels in the United States? A. There are instances where connections can be made be all are indirect. Q. What is the future of the drug cartels in Mexico? Do you think the level of success seen in Columbia against the Cali and Medillin cartels and in the United States against the LCN can be achieved in Mexico. A. The success in circumventing the spread of the Mexican cartels influence will be determined by the level of cooperation we receive from the Mexican government. Should the focus of the Mexican government change all of the progress we have made over the past two years will be for naught. As for the alleged successes over the years, have we truly seen the last of the Cali cartel, I think the recent release of the Orjeulla brothers shows we have work to do before this menace is at the very least brought under control.

Q.

My first question is with the rise of the 5 Guatemalan Mafia families what is the effect on the Mexican Drug trade? Do these organizations cut into their profits in any ways?

A.

There is no comparison between what is taking place in Guatemala and Mexico. Mexican cartels are criminal organizations which aim to turn a profit. The groups in Guatemala are primarily rebels led by military or former military officials with a political agenda. These groups have turned to narcotics as a means of financing their so-called revolutionary organizations. What we find most often are bands of rebels protecting shipments belonging to larger long established groups in Columbia and or Brazil. The best example of this type of arrangement exists between the Red Command and the FARC.
To complete the answer to this question, there is no competition between the two groups as there has been no effect on the Mexican cartels profit margin.

Q.

My next question is with the demise of Amado Carrillo in '97 and the arrest of Benjamin Arellano in '02, is it possible that the Mexican drug trade will see a splintering of the trade similar to what happened after the collapse of the Meddillin and Cali cartels in the 90's?

A.

Great inroads have been made over the past decade as far as developing a greater understanding of what we are dealing with in Columbia and Mexico. The Medellin Cartel collapsed because our government made it a priority to remove Pablo Escobar from power. Had he concentrated on the business at hand and limited his interest to narcotics, he would probably still be alive today. His fate and that of Meddillinization he constructed was sealed when he turned to political terrorism. At this point he and the organization he led became a threat to the security of the United States and therefore had to be eliminated.

As for the Cali cartel, its business as usual. They are still the dominant force in Columbia and are a growing threat as their sophistication increases. You mention splinter groups, I get the impression that you are implying that these are new, upstart groups with no connection to the old guard. This is not the case. As intelligence is gathered on these seemingly independent organizations, we find that there is often a financial connection. In essence you have parent organizations sponsoring smaller distribution networks which attract the attention of law enforcement, politicians and the general public. We have made great impressions war on drugs but a lack of consistent focus and funding gives the trafficking networks a tremendous advantage.

Q.

Is it safe to say that presently Vicente Carrillo Fuentes is the most wanted man in the Mexican drug trade? If so how (baring any sensitive information of course) is this investigation going? Do you expect an arrest any time soon? Also the Carrillo Fuentes compound is known to authorities, has it been under surveillance and if not why not?

A.

Every agency has its own list of priority targets, but Carillo is certainly a figure we would like to see brought to justice. Sorry I cannot divulge any information pertaining to the question regarding expected arrests or surveillance targets.

Q.

Anyone who studies the international narcotics trade and crunches the numbers eventually realizes that they are less than definitive. I've seen that the international trade profits placed between $200 billion and $1 trillion annually for example. This is a wide figure which I personally estimate to be around $400 billion. What can you tell our readers about these figures and which seem most realistic to you?

A.

The estimates are of no investigative value and are composed by economists, accountants and other specialists primarily for media purposes. As for my personal opinion, there is no accurate way to estimate how much these groups make.

Q.

Amado Carrillo Fuentes was estimated to be worth around $25 billion at the time of his death. Was this number accurate? Also has his brother Vicente been able to achieve this level of wealth?

A.

To amass a personal fortune of $25 billion over a very short period of time would have been a tremendous accomplishment but I beg to differ on that figure. The Juarez cartel were transportation specialists, meaning very little of the cocaine the group moved into the states actually belonged to them so assuming he was able to amass a fortune of $25 billion, then there is some out there somewhere who made 10 times that amount

. As for his brother Vincent, his inability to unify the Juarez cartel is severely cutting into the groups effectiveness. Guillen is getting at least half of the business that the cartel is earning and it is very likely that they are both fronting for someone else. So the answer here is no.

Q.

Of the traffickers in Mexico today how many would you say are billionaire? Also has the declining demand for cocaine damaged their profits significantly? Also is there a fee that traffickers are paying for these laundry services? Can you explain how the drug money out of Mexico is laundered? Also is there a fee that traffickers are paying for these laundry services?

A.

Billionaire Mexican traffickers, I can't honestly say there is a single one who has amassed a personal net worth anywhere near that figure. If you ask me how many cartels do a billion dollar business that would generate a totally different response altogether which I would then reply, each of the majors do a billion dollar business. To amass a billion dollar fortune, a trafficker needs his money diversified world wide and the attention paid to every dollar going into and coming out of the Mexican banking system is so closely scrutinized that international investment opportunities are few and far between for these guys. Unlike some of the other billionaire criminal figures around the world, drugs are pretty much the life blood of Mexican cartels right now. Unless they diversify into other profitable sidelines, it will be along time before anyone breaks the billion dollar net worth barrier in Mexico.

There have been attempts to invest in real-estate in the U.S. and abroad but as I stated previously, we scrutinizes cash sums transferred out of Mexico so intensely that we have been very successful in blocking these attempts thus far.

Laundering fees are generally paid as a percentage of the money handled by the broker.

Q.

What is the current role of Juan Jose Esparagossa Moreno in the Mexican Drug trade?

A.

He is the puppet master, a guiding hand which is sure to play a major role in the direction of the Mexican cartels. If anyone is capable of uniting the cartels he is the one.

Q.

Benjamin Arellano as well as the Ochoa brothers of Columbia have both stated in interviews that they do not profit nearly as much as the United States government says that they do. Are these statements to be believed?

A.

This is one of the few times I would agree with a statement issued by someone of their ilk. Many times estimates are drawn from the street cost which is much higher than the price people at their level pay and then provide pass on to their customers.

Q.

Is the trend internationally in narcotics organizations to larger "corporate" type cartels or smaller operations?

A.

The cartel structure has remained constant but we have been more successful in identifying a greater number of lower level operatives and therefore exposing to a greater extent the depth of the problem we are dealing.

Q.

What exactly defines a criminal drug trafficking outfit as a cartel? The traditional definition is that a cartel is an organization which is a combination of several independent groups which consolidate to raise profits and limit risks through the establishment of a monopoly. The Cali cartel fit this model but the Mexican organizations for the most part do not. Is the term cartel simply a label?

A

It is very simple, labels are placed on these organizations such as cartel, gang, mafia, cosa nostra, etc., for the purpose of public identification. Upon closer inspection, there are few differences between any of the above in terms of makeup outside of economic success, experience and in some instances political influence.

Q.

Why is it that heroin trafficking organizations tend to be much smaller in size and scope than cocaine trafficking organizations?

A.

The cocaine market provides greater profits therefore a greater number of criminals get involved. The cost of importing heroin is also much greater limiting the profit margin in addition to a much greater risk of detection resulting in costly seizures.

Q.

In your opinion what drives a man like Vicente Carrillo or Osiel Cardenas to continue in this business when they have amassed such enormous fortunes? Why don't they retire?

A.

Ego and greed, in addition to the fact that these men are professional criminals plain and simple and professional criminals don't often retire.

Q.

Have any psychological profiles on these individuals ever been conducted?

A.

Individual files contain a variety of information. "This is all I can provide in regards to this question."

Q.

The Mexican organizations have been linked to Russian Organized crime, Colombian Organized crime, etc., is their any connection to traditional American Organized crime i.e. the Cosa Nostra?

A.

Traditional organized crime has long operated in Mexico but those links are on the governmental level. Very rarely do you find Cosa Nostra figures in the company of cartel figures.

Q.

Do any Cosa Nostra members deal directly with the Mexican Cartels in the United States?

A.

There are instances where connections can be made be all are indirect.

Q.

What is the future of the drug cartels in Mexico? Do you think the level of success seen in Columbia against the Cali and Medillin cartels and in the United States against the LCN can be achieved in Mexico.

A.

The success in circumventing the spread of the Mexican cartels influence will be determined by the level of cooperation we receive from the Mexican government. Should the focus of the Mexican government change all of the progress we have made over the past two years will be for naught.

As for the alleged successes over the years, have we truly seen the last of the Cali cartel, I think the recent release of the Orjeulla brothers shows we have work to do before this menace is at the very least brought under control.

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